From the comments section of the last post:
“The problem with the whole CP thing is if you write very sporadically, you don’t want to try someone’s patience. I’m having that problem right now – my kind-of CP is all on edge for my next chapter, which may not be done for quite a while.”
and
“I so need to take the plunge and find a critique partner but I’m procrastinating because I’m still not writing what I feel is a consistent enough basis (I know lame excuse) between working the full-time job, husband, and a toddler to boot I barely have time to get a few pages in on weekends. But then again a few pages a week may be all some crtique partners can handle and I suppose having a critique partner might somehow make me more accountable, I guess I better go get one huh!”
Maybe you two should work together?
I don’t think there is anything wrong with having an irregular output. Take my example. I gave Marley UTR to read in pieces over last summer, and then I gave her some more work in early December, and then in January I gave her the proposal for SSG3. For C.L. Wilson, I read her entire 1,000 page fantasy epic in January of 2006, and now I’m reading the first half again (it will be published in two volumes).
But then again, we are all using the critique relationship as nothing more than a critique relationship. Not to “be accountable” or to urge us to turn out pages. (We’ve got the deadlines for that.) We do talk about how we love the books and want to read more, but that’s reader love talking. Or maybe I’m just being a commercial old hag?
I can see how that might be a valuable motivation at a certain point in your development as a writer — if you have a critique partner waiting to see your stuff, you may be more inclined to write it — but I have never thought of it like that. (I didn’t put it on my list of reasons to have a CP.) Can anyone jump in here and talk about using CPs as a motivational technique?
I’m my own best motivational technique. Well, that and my landlord, who has this total obsession with rent. I don’t think a CP saying, “I gotta read more,” has quite the same oomph as a utility saying, “we’re turning off your heat.” But, for those of us who don’t make a living from writing, you need something else to push you. Again, I think that push has to come from you, but it’s certainly something you can arrange to work well within the CP relationship. One of my RWA chapters has a yearly bookchallenge in which we report our weekly goals with the idea of finishing a book by our Christmas party. You can make up those kind of challenges with your CPs. Promise them a particular number of pages per week. Sure. But I don’t know if that’s the point of a CP.
Gee, maybe I have grown cynical! Someone jump in here and tell me it’s okay. Julie? Now I think I’m being a bad CP, and I should be spending more time begging them to send me more.
Moving on. So, do you need a critique partner when you are writing very sporadically? Sure. Your work needs critiquing every bit as much when you turn out one book every two years as when you turn out six books a year. I think, all things being equal, I’d rather a CP who sent me too little work than too much!
Of course, if you send them chapter one in January and chapter two in July, they probably won’t remember from before. Keep that in mind.
Okay, signing off now to think about how my soul has shriveled up into a crumpled, ashen ball of cynicism and commercialism.
February 20th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
What my critique group does is this: we only officially critique finished drafts, but we check in over the Yahoo group every few weeks, and we meet up in town to talk about writing (and other things…and then back to writing…and then we drift off again…etc.). The last time I had any contact with anyone in my group (well, besides the one who, y’know, shares a house), I wrote four thousand words the next day (and yes, I do place an absolutely inordinate amount of emphasis on wordcount, which is probably a result of NaNoWriMo being the beginning of my more serious writerly ambition), just because it was such a motivational push to even talk about writing at all.
We’re planning to start the actual critiquing back up in March/April, but that only works if someone has a draft ready. There’s your motivation right there. I wouldn’t mind having the first slot, and I don’t think anyone else would, either. It’s like friendly competition.
Do you have to be “accountable” to be motivated? In my case, no. The last time I was accountable to someone for output, in a matter of speaking, the story flopped. Horribly. There’s a large history of that with me, actually. I have a tendency to jinx myself if I show large pieces of things to people before they’re done.
Is this atypical? Probably.
Did that make a whole lot of sense? I’m thinking probably not.
Moral of the (long, winding) post: one of the best motivational tools I’ve found is just keeping in contact with other writers, especially CP-types. Writing can be (and usually is, by sheer necessity) a very solitary activity, but living human beings can generally keep a person motivated more than the glow of a computer monitor can. Do you have to be self-motivated at some point? Yes. But if you turn self-motivated to mean “your own slave driver” and start putting waaaaaaay too much pressure on yourself, I think it can get a little…unhealthy.
(Note to self: if the comment is approaching the original post in length, it’s probably too long.)
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February 20th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
Can anyone jump in here and talk about using CPs as a motivational technique?
I can! I’d been working on the one novel for years and years getting no closer to finishing when I got talking with someone I knew because she managed one of my fave bookshops. It turned out she was in the same boat.
So we agreed to meet once a week for lunch and to swap what we’d written and then report on it at the next lunch. And that’s how I managed to finished my first novel. Without Jo’s support I’m not sure I would have done it.
We’ve fallen out of touch but I’m still very very very grateful.
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February 20th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
I think with CPs, there may be a fear of not writing enough and looking bad next to your partners who are turning out pages of work. I know I’d feel lazy (right word?) if my partners wrote a hundred pages a week and I only wrote 15. With that said, CPs can’t place a focus on volume but rather on quality.
Good stuff, Diana.
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February 20th, 2007 at 3:09 pm
Miri, that makes alot of sense. I don’t use a CP/critique group and don’t want to — it’s not a process that works for me, mostly be/c I write out of sequence, in layers, and with a “POS” (piece of shit) first draft. But I can see how only critiquing finished and even semi-final drafts could work. Something to think about.
For motivation, I use the local chapter loop Diana mentioned — I like the accountability of posting progress in terms of pages written, revised, etc.
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February 20th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
I think communicating with other writers about WIPs regardless of whether you are actually CPs is motivating. I can’t tell you how charged up I become after any writing conference or workshop I attend. Really I shouldn’t speak for two weeks after, because I become delusionally motivated.
Talking with other writers, or sometimes someone who is just interested in the story helps to keep it moving along because you brainstorm.
I can’t count how many times I have sat with another writer who sits there and explains WHY they are stuck and where they are stuck and then screams eureka and runs off to type the solution that I have clearly been instrumental in solving.
I guess I don’t think of dedicated CPs as necessity, but I do see value in using CPs. When I started, I thought they were crap and that a good writer would just know when their work was good enough. Ha.
I do have people I trust that will read for me, but since I send so little, that is probably why so few would think of asking me to read.
Miri – You have another 163 words. Please continue.
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February 20th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Diana,
I think you may have misunderstood me a bit. My motivation and drive does very much come from within. I’ve wanted to be a writer since I was old enough to realize that you could make a living doing such (about age 7) and I have never stopped writing. But far too often I have let life get in the way of me pursuing my dream. This year I made a vow to myself not to let that happen, but it’s very easy when you have those other BIG responsibilities to put writing on the back burner. So if I had a critique partner who was expecting to hear from me on a fairly regular basis it might not be so easy for me to make the normal excuses like cleaning the house, making dinner, playing with my daughter or spending time with my husband watching ‘24′ when I could be writing…but that’s just me and that’s what I meant by being held accountable.
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February 20th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
I’ve turned down CPs because I couldn’t keep up with their output levels to give them crits and their volume was somewhat demoralizing to my own writing since I couldn’t keep pace.
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February 20th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
I’m a member of the book challenge Diana mentioned and it is great motivation. I don’t feel like I have to have “polished” pages to turn into a CP (and for me “polished” means all in the same tense!) but it’s nice to know when another week has gone by. Honestly, I can put off writing “just for tonight” for a month, but having that weekly check-in makes me realize that I need to get moving!
As for CPs being motivating – I think it all depends. In my instance, my CP is increadibly supportive of my project and sometimes I feel like a kid wanting to impress. I want to write more so that I can see the reaction. There are definately times I’ve been motivated to sit down and write so that I can send off more pages and see what my CP thinks about it. Also, I don’t want to go too long without her being involved in the story or losing interest. I think it’s always easier to produce when you have cheerleaders and supporters.
But at the same time, one of the things I like about my current CP situation is that I don’t feel like I HAVE to turn anything in at any given time. So if I do space out, or life gets in the way, or whatever I don’t feel like I’ve let her down or thrown off her schedule (I hope!). And I think it’s the same with me – I’m not expecting anything at any time and am ready whenever I’m needed.
Hmmm… speaking of which, maybe I need to get writing…
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February 20th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
Okay, I’m now officially smacked down by my commenters. Everyone else apparently thinks of CPs as a great motivational force. (I think they’re just getting a twofer, but whatever.)
For what it’s worth, I’m thick enough that it wouldn’t make me feel at all insufficient to be turning in an eighth of the page count that a CP did. I already do this (hi, Marley). I have come to terms with the fact that there are lots of people who write faster than me. This is something we all should learn, since no matter how fast we write, Joyce Carol Oates will still beat us all and not break a sweat.
Renaissance, I wasn’t saying that you need a CP for the inner drive. I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to imply that at all. Just to keep you accountable. And even that comes from within as well. I don’t REALLY think Phyllis will think less of me for not reporting in my weekly goals. But having to say it every Tuesday does motivate me to do some work on Monday night, you know? I’ve just never used CPs for that, because I’ve never had a “regularly scheduled CP date” — it was just whenever i had something ready for a CP, I turned it in, and they got it back to me when they could.
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February 20th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
Speaking of which, I should get back to CPing.
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February 20th, 2007 at 6:13 pm
I’m thick enough that it wouldn’t make me feel at all insufficient to be turning in an eighth of the page count that a CP did.
This may be a direct result of you being happy with your current output.
Where as someone like myself, with a day job (which I would love to leave, but the wife and child seem to prefer living indoors) it is probably more demoralizing because I am not able to write as much as I want.
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February 20th, 2007 at 6:19 pm
Patrick, that’s sweet of you to say, but I’m NOT happy with my page count. I’d LOVE to write more, and in fact, am trying to do just that.
And I did write more when I had a day job. Bummer, huh? It’s this blog. I should stop the blog.
::KIDDING!!!!!!::::
Sorta.
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February 20th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
That’s pretty common though, isn’t it? The forced routine of a job helps many people.
Do you have a dedicated non-internet computer? or even better a dedicated writing room?
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February 20th, 2007 at 10:40 pm
Okay, first of all, who are you and what have you done with Patrick? What’s with all the serious questions all of a sudden? There’s been nary a dadaist posting nor a photoshopping extravaganza?
I’m just kidding, P. Ask away. Also, the spanking new signed copy of Venus Envy is FINALLY winging its way to you, with a special treat to make up for the delay…
And, the answer to your question is today’s double jeopardy! Just kidding, it’s tomorrow’s post.
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February 21st, 2007 at 10:34 am
I’m curious, Diana. Do you send your contracted books to your CPs chapter by chapter (or in sections)or all in one chunk, once the whole thing is finished?
I haven’t sent my CP anything at all of the book I’m working on, because I don’t want to take the time to polish it until the whole thing is done. But then she’s gonna get 450 pages to read all at once, and that doesn’t seem very fair to her. I know I’d have trouble finding time to critique an entire novel at once.
I’ll probably send it one polished chapter at a time, but that’ll still be several chapters a week. Being relatively new to the whole CP thing (I’m still on my first CP), what happens when you overload a CP?
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February 21st, 2007 at 11:13 am
Rachel, most CPs find it common etiquette to send a Howler Monkey Deathsquad to your house if they feel unwantonly overloaded.
Fortunately, they don’t actually kill you, but will sit out side your window howling “Death and Despair be upon you!”
It sometimes disturbs the neighbors.
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February 21st, 2007 at 11:26 am
Being the president and founder of the Wilcox Writers is a helpful motivation for me. Out of the seven, only two of us have significant progress in novels, and we have already been CPs for a long time now. The rest, though, are just getting back into writing or don’t have the time for a lot of writing output. What we’ve been doing is working on a group project – each writing a short story fairy tale rewrite. We share a couple pages of our stories at each monthly meeting. As it’s my secondary project, even though I love my story I probably wouldn’t have new pages to share if I wasn’t expected to. I’ve got to be an example for my group!
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February 21st, 2007 at 8:20 pm
For those of us who don’t make a living from writing, you need something else to push you.
Can anyone jump in here and talk about using CPs as a motivational technique?
Why, allow me. =)
Typically, I write really really fast for a while (a month or two) and then I drop off the face of the writing planet for a while (oh, say, a month or two) and then I do it all over again.
BUT. My two “real life” CPs have initiated a write-every-day challenge. We’re required to spend at least 15 minutes per day on new writing, under the theory that anybody can fit in 15 minutes. Also it’s a challenge–none of us wants to be the one to “break the chain” first.
My *online* CPs are a little different. I actually *send* them what I’ve written each day. And since I usually write first thing in the morning, if I haven’t sent by evening time, they start hounding me. (Which is good, because usually that means I’m slacking off in front of Law & Order.)
None of these people are line-editing or any other kind of in-depth critique. (That comes *after* the first draft.) It’s more of a support/ encouragement/ accountability thang. And it works for me. YMMV. =)
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February 21st, 2007 at 8:26 pm
P.S. to Patrick:
Howler Monkey Death Squad killed me. =)
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February 22nd, 2007 at 9:34 am
Rachel, it really depends. For instance, with UTR, I sent in sections, because I never would have had time, given my deadline, to wait until the whole thing was finished and THEN go back. Also, I don’t work like you do. I polish as I go.
However, given my own personal BOS, I sent the whole thing (proposal) out once the whole thing (proposal) was finished. I also did not finish the book first. I also accept full proposals
And finally, I would never send out a book chapter by chapter, especially if i had more than a chapter. I don’t think it’s a useful way to work. (Wouldn’t a lot of their questions be answered if they kept reading? I’m the type who makes notes like, “Is this scene necessary” and then find out, five chapters later that yeah, it was important, so I want as much as possible.) I’d send them at least a couple of chapters at a time, or, more likely, I’d send them the whole thing, and let them get it back to me in whatever chunks THEY wanted to.
And yeah, howler monkeys. Totally
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