I was inspired to write this series by two things: a blog dissing FPPOV by a writer I admire, and a Q&A session on one of my loops with an editor whose house guidelines specifically state: “Things to avoid include: first person POV (at least in the beginning).”
But… but… why?
Natalie Damschroder states (bolding mine):
The exact reasons people give for loving first person are the reasons I hate it. See, most people feel first person is more intimate. Like the narrator is a friend, sitting beside the reader and telling them what happened. I agree that it’s like that—but I don’t agree that it’s more intimate. In fact, I think it’s more distancing… when I’m reading first person, the narrator is telling me the story. I want to live it, not hear it…First person exacerbates flaws in the story that I might ignore otherwise. The first person narratives that I stick with and enjoy the most, however, are the ones that are written as if they were third person. There’s very little direct address to the reader, or self-aware language.
(In the interest of full-disclosure, Natalie goes on to admit she’s trying her first FPPOV story now.)
I’ve never felt the “distancing” that Natalie mentions. I’m not sure I even understand it. Why should there be any more likelihood to “live” the story when “she does this and he does that” than when “I do this, I do that?” Can you really be “living” the story in any POV other than second person? (i.e., “You do this, you do that.”)
Indeed, there are arguments to be made that third person is necessarily more distancing, since there is the distance between subject and narrator–even the modern, involved, limited third-person narrator. In first person, there is no veil between the protagonist and the reader. Whose heart has not broken all over the page as Charlie from Flowers for Algernon begins to disintegrate, and doesn’t even possess the mental faculties to understand what has happened to him? Would such a reaction be the same if we read, “As time passed, the effects of the treatment wore off, and Charlie regressed to his former state…”
If anything, I think the true argument to be made against first person is how completely it forces you to live through the reality as the narrator sees it, no matter how unreliable that narration is. (::cough:: The Murder of Roger Ackroyd ::cough, cough::). In first person, you cannot distance yourself from this narrator. You cannot, even if you want to. You’ve been aligned to his or her worldview, however despicable it might be. I’m sure we can all think of a few like FPPOV books like that.
Now let us discuss the bolded text, wherein first person is accused of exacerbating flaws. In my research of FPPOV hatahs, this is a common refrain. Though I am barred by the rules of the email loop from repeating the editor’s words, it’s pretty much what he said.
I am curious, however, what flaws these are. Some FPPOV detractors even go so far as to state that FPPOV is the refuge of the sloppy novelist. But I’m having a hard time finding details. Any takers? Someone suggested the repetition of “I” and that in third person, you get the option of “he” or “Sailor Boy.” I read my novels out loud during the editing process, and though repeated words jump out at me, (oh, all too often, which is *why* I read out loud while I edit)…”I” is not one of them.
I suppose it’s different for every novel. One detractor opined that you miss a lot of detail when forced to view the world through the eyes of a given protagonist (he was speaking specifically about first person in science fiction). And yet, isn’t it fun to have that extra layer of mystery? Is this person really the way they’ve been described, or is the protagonist prejudiced? And could it be that the reader, in trying to divine the truth, is the one putting the distance between herself and the narrative?
The editor also stated that though many people think it’s easy, convincing FPPOV is in actuality quite difficult. I have certainly read FPPOV done poorly, as I have read books in any POV done poorly. But I’m not sure that I think of it as any more or less difficult than writing convincing characters — no matter what POV you choose.
And perhaps that’s where the issue is. If you don’t take to the characters, there is no escape in FPPOV. No distance. If the voice bugs you in third person, you may be able to tolerate it for the sake of the story. But in FPPOV, the voice is with you at every turn. If you LOVE the character (or, um, love to hate her) then this is a plus. Otherwise, I can imagine getting annoyed/frustrated/angry much more quickly.
Then again, there’s a third-person POV writer out there who turns me off by page 20 of every book of hers I’ve ever tried to read.
Of course, in this case, we’re discussing strong, convincing FPPOV stories featuring characters we don’t enjoy. I have a friend who can’t get through a Shopaholic book because of her very strong, very negative feelings about Becky Bloomwood. Lord knows there have been people, inconceivable as it sounds, who don’t care much for Amy. What about a FPPOV book where the voice is just… meh? Is this better or worse than a TPPOV with meh characters? Which is more distasteful?
The final problem the editor pointed out with FPPOV is that it required very careful blocking. He expressed doubt that a “strong plot” could be achieved in first person, since it required the protagonist to be present at every scene. No chance for a villain POV sneaking behind the protag’s back. Often, you see this problem solved with what Rachel Vincent calls “a Scooby Doo scene” where the villain somehow explains what he or she was doing throughout the book. (Vincent also rightly says this scene needs to be cut down as much as possible.) This, perhaps, would be similar to the scene discussed in the comments section yesterday, where the hero of the romance explains to the heroine how much he loved her all along. Or, you simply arrange the plot so that such monologuing is not necessary.
If the story truly centers around the protagonist (here we have the difference between the heterodiegetic (e.g., Ishmael) and the autodiegetic (e.g., Bridget Jones) narrator), then it’s probably pretty easy to make sure she’s there all the time, is it not? I’ve written 600 pages in my series, and there has only been one scene where I had to write around Amy’s absence.
So are these flaws real flaws, or are they a matter of taste? Natalie says she dislikes direct address (external focalization) in favor of “to the moment” living alongside the character. (Natalie and Sam Richardson would be buddies, I think.) I love it, in all mediums. I love Shakespeare’s asides, I love Ferris Bueller talking to the screen, I love Veronica Mars’s voice overs, and I love Amy’s confessions.
Focalization, of course, does not need to remain stable throughout the text. Like a camera, it can zoom in and out of the moment as needed.
So again, I wonder, why is there prejudice at all. Certainly, the problem of “sympathy” becomes even more trying when you are dealing with first person narration. But when achieved, the result is even more stunning than in third. A skillful writer can avoid repetition of sentence structure, and other claims (navel gazing, etc.) can be a danger in any narrative voice. Is it really a matter of taste after all?
October 17th, 2006 at 3:00 am
I believe that I more easily role-play and become the character as I read FPPOV. So I’ve never really felt this “distancing” either.
I also can not imagine the rich paranormal worlds crafted by Laurell K. Hamilton, Kim Harrison, Kelley Armstrong, Charlaine Harris, (I could go on…) having the same effect if they had been written in TPPOV.
I also don’t read FPPOV exclusively.
I normally have to read TPPOV when I’m writing first draft. But that’s me. Because I’m green (new, not jealous) and I don’t want to absorb another author’s voice as I write.
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October 17th, 2006 at 4:40 am
I think, ultimately, first person is harder to write and harder to read.
When I say harder to read, I mean that it’s harder to find a book written in first person that you love. Every first ferson novel makes or breaks with the characters voice. I can appreciate the writer’s skill, but if I can’t stand the character’s voice, it’s over.
I completely agree with Natalie when she says FPPOV exacerbates flaws. It’s just easier to manipulate your reader when you’re writing in third. Moreover, there’s the whole “Where does my voice end and the character’s voice begin?” issue.
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October 17th, 2006 at 8:27 am
Diana,
I love FFPOV and my voice is so much stronger when I write in it. Like you, I don’t understand the negative reputation that FFPOV gets. I had a creative writing teacher who told me that people who wrote in 1st person were lazy and not creative.
I don’t feel that way at all when I write!
When I read FFPOV, I’m pulled into the story to the point that sometimes, I think the story is about me!
Sometimes I think people have a hard time allowing themselves to experience the story that way. They are uncomfortable “living” the story. And they don’t fall so deeply into the story within the 3rd person…so they don’t actually feel like they are experiencing it–they’re just reading it.
Make sense? I don’t really understand that myself, but I wonder if that’s not part of the resistance.
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October 17th, 2006 at 8:49 am
Depending on the type of story you are writing, FPPOV can be extremely useful. Yes, it is tough to write in FP all the way through, because the whole story is through one character’s eyes. But that can also make for a very interesting story. There is a lot going on behind the scenes that neither we, as the reader, nor the protagonist is aware of, and that can build some good tension. Sometimes writing in 3rd person would reveal too much…or, perhaps, make the writer reveal too much.
Personally, I have enjoyed both 1st and 3rd person books. Usually, reading in 1st person is only jarring for the first page or two. Then, I settle into the story, and almost forget about it.
I couldn’t imagine reading “Rebecca” as a 3rd person story. Much of the mystery and tension in the book was built upon the fact that we were just as unaware about the past and others’ motives as Mrs. DeWinter. Writing the book in 1st person made the final chapters completely shocking and surprising. (one of my favorite books, by the way)
First person has its place. It just has to be used in the right story and used the right way. To say that only experienced authors have the ability to do this successfully is a bunch of hogwash.
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October 17th, 2006 at 9:40 am
Diana:
I’m a natural first-person writer, so I’m with you. But I’ve certainly come across this criticism more than once; I’ve even had people say they wouldn’t read my book just because of the POV. (WHAT?)
I do think there are tricks, and there are pitfalls you have to be careful of–the over-aware narrator is the biggest. You don’t want a first-person character to (a) notice or know things that would be unrealistic for them or (b) be hyper-aware of their own appearance or reactions. But as you say with the Scooby-Doo scene, these are problems that can be overcome by a skilled writer. Personally I love to write and read deep first-person POV. It makes it so much easier for me to fall into the story.
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October 17th, 2006 at 10:12 am
Great post. Alot of food for thought. I’m playing around with FPPOV for the first time in my current WIP and this post helps alot. I think the biggest constraint I’m having is the fact that it’s very difficult to have multiple viewpoints in FPPOV; my crit group argues completely against it. I just started reading Elizabeth Bear’s “Hammered” which switches from FPPOV to TPPOV depending on the character; I”m only 20 pages into it. Still trying to figure out if it works.
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October 17th, 2006 at 10:26 am
Every first ferson novel makes or breaks with the characters voice. I can appreciate the writer’s skill, but if I can’t stand the character’s voice, it’s over.
I was thinking that may be the problem, but then I thought about writer’s whose TPPOV voices have bugged me every bit as much and I couldn’t, I couldn’t, I couldn’t get through it! So I don’t know if I feel more strongly about it in FP or TP.
I completely agree with Natalie when she says FPPOV exacerbates flaws. It’s just easier to manipulate your reader when you’re writing in third. Moreover, there’s the whole “Where does my voice end and the character’s voice begin?” issue.
Can you elaborate on this more, May? What flaws does it exacerbate?
As for the “where does my character’s voice end,” thing, I can definitely see that as a problem, but more along the lines of the character’s voice leaking into yours because you are spending all day in her head. (Robin Brande calls this “method acting for authors” and I totally feel it. However, I felt it in books that I wrote in third person, as well. It wears off. I had to get back into Amy’s voice between writing the first and second book. I had to make sure other characters I wrote did not sound like Amy…
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October 17th, 2006 at 10:34 am
I think the biggest constraint I’m having is the fact that it’s very difficult to have multiple viewpoints in FPPOV; my crit group argues completely against it. I just started reading Elizabeth Bear’s “Hammered” which switches from FPPOV to TPPOV depending on the character; I”m only 20 pages into it. Still trying to figure out if it works.
I only rarely see that. Justine Larbalestier does it in her Magic or Madness books, but even her third person POV is such deep POV that there is no jarring between the two (which is the major complaint I see about alternating first and third). I also see a great deal of alternating first which is quite a challenge. Usually, it comes with the obligatory “as I lay dying” character-name chapter headings. I just finished a great example of this, in fact: The Last Days by Scott Westerfeld (shut up, Peanut gallery. yes I’m hawking Scott again.) Very good job at making each character’s *voice* different. Five first person POVs. Increidbly difficult, but quite powerful when pulled off correctly.
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October 17th, 2006 at 11:11 am
Diana, I do find that I’m more able to tolerate a TPPOV I don’t really like then a TPPOV. In fact, the usual case for FPPOV is that I hate it or love it.
I feel that it’s harder to use red herrings successfully, for instance, in FPPOV.
And not all writers are good at method acting. If you’re the author, you know when another character is lying to your FPPOV character. Sometimes, it shows that the author knew. Pantzing helps though.
Racy mentioned the multiple POV constraint. I feel it too, partly because I’ve read books that alternate different FPPOVs or one FPPOV and TPPOVs, and I feel that it doesn’t usually work.
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October 17th, 2006 at 11:14 am
I used to be one of those people who hated FPPOV, and hated it so much that I often would decide against buying a book if it was in FP. Why? For exactly the reason Natalie stated. Most of the FP books I’d read just weren’t done well enough, and the FPPOV was grating, overly aware, overly snarky, overly ‘look at me and how clever I am’, so that it just threw me out of the story instead of pulled me in. I still see that and I think it’s a fine line for the writer.
The distance thing is what I most relate to and agree with. In many instances I feel more distanced from the story in FPPOV than in third. Why? Because of the I. In first person, I’m constantly reminded that someone, that ‘I’ is ‘telling’ a story. Whereas in third person, I just sink into it and more closely identify with the heroine, if that makes any sense at all.
Now this isn’t true in all cases. I’ve grown to like FPPOV, when it’s done well, and many authors are doing it very well. I think the real test for me is if I even notice what the POV is. If I just immediately get into the story, I really don’t care what the POV is. In fact, it’s not unusual for me to have to think back and check if Sophie Kinsella’s book Undomestic Goddess or Can You Keep a Secret was in first? It was. Same with Emily Giffin’s books. Or that one about the Secret Society Girl…
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October 17th, 2006 at 11:34 am
Can you really be “living” the story in any POV other than second person? (i.e., “You do this, you do that.”)
Sure you can. You get so lost in the book and consumed by the story that you can image that it’s you going through the turmoil or romance or pursuit or what have you. When I was a kid reading books, I felt as if I’d stepped onto the pages with the characters, being a part of the story. A good romance pulls me in that way…physically with the heart palpitations, the anticipation, the gut-punch moments and the tears. Sandra Brown’s earlier books (SUNSET EMBRACE, ANOTHER DAWN) certainly did that to me. So, I can definitely understand how a reader can feel they’re “living” the story whether it be first person or third person.
Marley = )
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October 17th, 2006 at 12:10 pm
Pam said,
“the FPPOV was grating, overly aware, overly snarky, overly ‘look at me and how clever I am’, so that it just threw me out of the story.”
Could this also be as easily attributed to immature craft and genre, instead of just FPPOV?
To be fair, I really experience this blogging. A lot. By me.
But I’m learning, and trying desperately to get it out of my system so it does not spill onto the pages of my WIP.
It is also dumbfounding to me that some may not want to read a book because of FPPOV. I can understand genre/subject matter, etc…but shying away from what might be an incredible journey because of “I” leaves me scratching my head.
I would never not read an author’s book just because it was written in TPPOV.
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October 17th, 2006 at 12:30 pm
How is it harder to put red herrings in FPPOV? I’m really curious. I don’t read a lot of mysteries, but isn’t the cozy OFTEN in the FPPOV of the sleuth? In chick lit mysteries, too…
That’s so interesting that you also, notice the difficulty of lying to the FPPOV character. I also see that difficulty, but to me, the real problem is exactly the opposite. How do I let onto the READER that the character is lying if the FPPOV character doesn’t know it?
Like Heather, I don’t think POV alone would keep me from buying a book. However, I do feel that multiple FPPOV and especially mixes of first and third do not feel as natural to me, perhaps because they are so rare and require such mental rebooting while reading. Of course, I’ve read fabulous ones, but it is a bit annoying to have to keep looking at the chapter headings when you’re switching POVs. Much as I loved TLD, I remember being so confused in one chapter since I didn’t realize we’d switched POVs and I was suddenly curious why a character was responding in such a different manner — turns out it was a different character!
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October 17th, 2006 at 12:48 pm
Diana:
[However, I do feel that multiple FPPOV and especially mixes of first and third do not feel as natural to me, perhaps because they are so rare and require such mental rebooting while reading.]
Uh-oh. For my next book I’m thinking of trying this approach. One character is clearly the primary MC and seems perfect for 1st person–it’s her “voice” I relate to. But I’d also like to try the freedom, in this complicated story, of doing some bits from her sister’s POV, 3rd person. The chapters would probably have to be labeled, though, since sisters’ voices might necessarily be similar in some ways…
Diana Gabaldon uses this approach in several of her books, FWIW. I guess I’ll have to try it and see how well it works for me! (hey, why take the easy road, right?)
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October 17th, 2006 at 1:00 pm
Don’t “uh-oh,” Susan! I love Justine Larbalestier’s MAGIC LESSONS, and she uses this exact method. I do read it. In fact, i have Elizabeth Bear and Holly Lisle on my TBR pile right now, and I hear they both employ the methods in the books I have.
And we shall we discussing this exact topic later this week (Friday, as a matter of fact) in great detail.
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October 17th, 2006 at 1:17 pm
Okay, I have really strong opinions on this subject, and have been trying really hard to be “good.”
I write in exclusively 1st person POV, because that’s what I’m most comfortable with. I have written in 3rd in the past, and didn’t find it to be any more difficult. In fact, there seemed to be more freedom, which actually made it a little easier to write.
But the fact of the matter is that if you read a book in 1st that you really like, you should know how very much work the author put into it. First person is NOT easy. Especially a mystery or intrigue.
Some of the problems I’ve encountered in 1st (most of which have already been mentioned) include having the MC figure out what’s going on without a Scooby-Doo scene (this is really, really hard, because if the MC was there when everything happened, there would be no mystery), keeping up with other characters, and (this is the hardest by far for me) getting information across to the reader that your MC doesn’t know yet.
There are several places in STRAY, and even more in ROGUE, where I want the reader to figure out something before Faythe does. But they can only see and hear what she sees and hears, and if I make it too obvious, Faythe looks like an idiot for not figuring it out earlier. Writing around this problem is very hard, and takes real skill.
Because I work so hard on things like this, I get personally offended when people say things like “I hate FPPOV” and “FPPOV is an automatic ‘no’ for me.” I prefer 1st, but would never turn a book down just because it’s written in 3rd.
Also, regarding the repeated “I” issue: I’ve seen the coordinating problem more in third person than I ever saw over-use of “I” in first. Many, many books in 3rd that I’ve read repeat “he” and “she” over, and over, and over again. Sentences in 3rd can sound just as repetitive and boring as sentences in 1st. It takes skill to avoid that, not a particular POV.
Okay, sorry to have ranted on your blog, Diana. Feel free to delete if I’ve annoyed anyone.
Thanks for a great topic!
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October 17th, 2006 at 1:20 pm
Diana, I believe that if the FPPOV character (FPPOVc?) doesn’t know it, then the reader shouldn’t either. Because the way I see it, the point of FPPOV is to put the reader in the FPPOV character’s head.
I don’t read cozies, and I don’t read much chicklit either. Most FPPOVs I read are urban fantasy.
FPPOV or multiple POVs with FPPOV isn’t going to make me not buy a book though.
I’ve Elizabeth Bear’s Hammered on TBR and I’ve probably read the Holly Lisle book, but it’s been awhile.
Another book that used alternate FPPOV is Sarah Monette’s Melusine.
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October 17th, 2006 at 1:39 pm
I believe that if the FPPOV character (FPPOVc?) doesn’t know it, then the reader shouldn’t either. Because the way I see it, the point of FPPOV is to put the reader in the FPPOV character’s head.
Okay, now *that* I don’t agree with. The most obvious example would be if the FFPOVc is a child or another person with limited understanding (perhaps an alien observing our culture?), but there are many more and more subtle examples. The whole idea of an unreliable narrator is about a person whose take on the situation is somehow corrupted or omitting things that the reader knows to be true.
Just as we can FEEL things about a situation that the main character doesn’t feel, we can know things that the main character doesn’t know.
It’s the same as if a friend were to tell you a story about her coworkers, and though she says nothing particular about her one coworker Bob, it seems as if every story for some reason has Bob in it. Bob Bob Bob. Why is Bob always around? Why is she always talking about Bob? And then suddenly it hits you — your friend likes Bob. (or, you know, vice versa.)
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October 17th, 2006 at 1:52 pm
Maybe my wording was a bit strong.
I mean that I don’t think it’s necessary that the author should go out of her way to let the reader know something the FPPOV character does not.
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October 17th, 2006 at 1:53 pm
Diana said: I had to get back into Amy’s voice between writing the first and second book. I had to make sure other characters I wrote did not sound like Amy…
I couldn’t agree with this more. I’ve noticed that I use the words “totally, natch, super, and uber” all the time in real life these days and these are words the MC in my current WIP (FPPOV) use. Now that I’m moving on to another FPPOV WIP, I’m having a hard time creating a new voice and a new character with the old one still rattling around in my head…
As for reading, I love FPPOV. In fact, I’ve been going back and reading the back list of some big authors and their head-hopping TPPOV is so jarring. I guess I like to experience the world from one person’s experience. It’s the same way I view the world, after all.
But I don’t choose books based on POV, never even ocurs to me.
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October 17th, 2006 at 5:03 pm
It’s TOTALLY a matter of taste!
Wait, let me get over my giddiness at being quoted on Diana’s blog.
*deep breath*
Okay. Here’s what I meant:
After experiencing hundreds of books in TPPOV and dozens (in the last 5-8 years, let’s say) in FPPOV, I prefer TPPOV. My taste. Personal preference.
If a book is flawed–poor characterization, or just a character *I* can’t identify with…weak craft…unbelievable or boring plot, etc.–I’m more likely to put the book down if it’s FPPOV than if it’s TPPOV. It’s got a strike against it from the start.
I explain the intimacy thing with FFPOV as that I feel like I’m being TOLD the story. Like the narrator is sitting beside me. That makes sense to me. However, I CANNOT explain why TPPOV is the opposite, and why I can more easily get into a character’s head if it’s TPPOV. You’re right, it’s not logical.
Part of the distancing, I suspect, is if the voice of the narrator is far different than mine. If it’s a character I would never be able to be, or would never be friends with, I have a harder time. There are books in FPPOV in which it’s almost invisible to me. Evanovich, Evelyn Vaughn, Julie Kenner, and yes, SSG, are some. And some of those DO have direct address to the reader.
I haven’t read the comments yet–gonna do that now. But I wanted to stress that I don’t see anything WRONG with FPPOV itself. It’s just not my favorite, just like secret baby books and vampires aren’t my favorites.
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October 17th, 2006 at 5:13 pm
shying away from what might be an incredible journey because of “I” leaves me scratching my head
It’s no different than shying away from what may be an incredible journey because it’s ANOTHER friggin’ vampire book, or an overly detailed saga that’s more about a place than a person, or because it has sex in it or doesn’t have sex in it, or whatever reason any reader might have for not choosing to read a particular book. It’s not meant to be insulting at all (at least, most of the time it’s not…I assume).
I never open a book when I’m considering buying it. I look at author, cover, blurb, whether it’s something I’ve heard of or looks like my kind of story–but the blurb alone is what makes me buy something. Usually, when I open it and it’s in first person, my heart sinks, I absorb the disappointment, and I start reading. Most of the time, I get over it.
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