Behold! A thread to discuss the conclusion of the Secret Society Girl series, TAP & GOWN.
Comment here to your heart’s content about Amy’s iconoclastic choice to tap a goldfish to take her place in Rose & Grave*, Poe’s pursuit of a career as a professional clown,** George’s decision to take the cloth,*** and Jenny’s heretofore unknown luddite tendencies.****
Or, you know, whatever really happened.
_________________________
* The argument goes that it’s easier to keep a secret if you can’t remember it.
** It was the shoes that really appealed to him.
*** He heard the whole celibacy thing was on the way out.
**** After graduation, she’s moving into a yurt.
May 18th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
I loved it so much. I’m so glad Jamie came back.
I’m glad Lydia decided to go to Eli and I’m imagining that her and Josh are able to figure out some way to make it work.
I am glad Amy was able to compromise about who she tapped. I was thinking after the first Michelle encounter that she would make an awesome tap, but was wasn’t sure how that would be able to come around, but then it did and it was fantastic.
I laughed, I cried, and I cheered at the end. It was fabulous, and I’m super sad it’s done.
Although that was one of the best endings to a series ever.
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May 18th, 2009 at 11:17 pm
Amy was finally able to fall in love! I think that did end up being an important element of her story. She was never able to make it work before. With Jamie, their break up came from an external issue, not something between the two of them. That was nice to see.
And I really enjoyed how Harun and Jenny’s relationship was dealt with. To someone with as a deep a faith as Jenny, the religious difference would be a HUGE deal, and that’s so often glossed over or ignored in fiction.
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May 19th, 2009 at 8:49 am
This morning at 9:02am, I entered my local, well known bookseller (who shall remain nameless) and imagine my surprise when there wasn’t a table of Tap & Gown up front. After searching the store for about 10 minutes, I finall resign to asking for help. After checking the computer to make sure the shipment came in yesterday, the clerk says that she’ll check the New Release tables or the Fiction section. I proceed to tell her that I’ve already checked those places and still haven’t found the book! She then adventures into the store room where she disappears for 10 minutes. Upon her return, she has 10 copies in arms and I, have 1 in my hot little hands! There will be no work getting done today!!! Finally, the time has come to enjoy the end to Amy’s adventure!
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May 19th, 2009 at 9:37 am
May I just say, I love my Sony E-Reader.
This book was a nice tie-up of Amy’s Digger life. The stuff with Poe was perfect, it’s nice that neither of them lost themselves in their relationship, nor the aspects that made them love one another. The scene with Poe’s CB, was hilarious.
I love Michelle as a Tap, it seems Amy left her legacy.
I have to admit, Felicity and Brandon baffled me a bit, but it was late and I was tired, so I may not have read those sections right.
More to come.
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May 19th, 2009 at 9:39 am
OMG!!!!!!!!! So I got it yesterday at 3 and was done by like 9:30…I admit I had to take a break for the gossip girl finale. Anyway, for about 40 pages I was ready to kill you Diana!!!! But then he came back
and all was forgiven.
The book was amazing! To be fair I cared a whole hell of a lot more about Amy and Jamie hehe it rhymes than I did about Michelle, George, Blake, etc but I’m sure that is to be expected.
I must say the England tickets floored me! So sweet, I just, ACK! There are no words, Poe and Amy forever!!!!!
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May 19th, 2009 at 10:18 am
Ok– because I hate surprises I am actually reading the spoilers (I’m one of those people who flips to the back of the book first)– and lunch time can not come soon enough. 45 minutes and counting– Diana, from these posts- its seems you do not disappoint- looking forward to reading it.
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May 19th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
I am SO relieved to be able to talk about the book now.
Firstly, how much do I LOVE Michelle?! She’s definitely one of the best characters of the series. I loved her strength, her humour, and her confession (with the texts from Jenny!) had me in tears. It was so real, and so honest, and I could really understand how even a smart girl like her could get into that situation. Kudos on handling that with delicacy, Diana.
The entire tap scene, from the moment that Poe tells Amy that she looks cute in her robe, to the incredible love scene…WOW. I’ve read that part at least five times now. I love how Jamie supported Amy, I love how Amy looked Michelle in the eye during her tap, I love how they ran home together in the rain…
I know Topher ended up helping a lot in the end, but man, was that guy a douchebag. I hope he stays on their side as well. I’m shocked and disgusted that Topher never came forward earlier with Blake’s indiscretions. I was equally disgusted with Kurt and Darren Gehry’s behavior. I can’t BELIEVE that after what they went through, Darren couldn’t (or wouldn’t) see that what he did was wrong. That kid doesn’t even deserve rehabilitation, he should be in prison. I’m so glad Amy finally went forward with that.
I wanted to read Amy’s thesis! I know, I’m a huge literary nerd, but it actually sounded really interesting. I’m shocked that grad schools didn’t accept her after that – but maybe she really didn’t have time to inform them all about her thesis.
I am SO GLAD that Jamie came back in the end. I couldn’t even believe that he left because, like he said at the end, I didn’t feel like that lifestyle suited him anymore. What he did to Kurt Gehry was unforgivable, in my opinion, and it was the act of a very different man than the one who was with Amy. So I’m really pleased with that.
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May 19th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
I just wish you had also presented the entire D178 tap class at the end, along with their code names.
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May 19th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Does George remind anyone else of Logan from Gilmore Girls?
Tiff – I never got the feeling Amy wanted to go to Grad school, more that she didn’t want to feel like a failure by not going and starting life in the “real” world. It goes with the same reason Amy never felt right in Rose and Grave and why when Jenny asked her to join her company, Amy felt it was a pity hire. Amy lacks self-confidence in her abilities and doesn’t realize the esteem she has among her collegues. I would hazard a guess that if we peeked at her applications, they were smart answers that lacked any enthusiasim.
Michelle being Poe’s Ex? From the moment Amy became interested in her as a tap, I got vibes that she was in some way tied up with Poe. You think maybe if Poe had drawn a girl tap she might have been his?
The scribing of the live chickens was super amusing! I could actually visualize the argument.
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May 19th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
SOO NOT HAPPY right now!… I have been to two different books stores (large ones I might add) … and well known, that did not have the book! I waited and didn’t order it because I was afraid I wouldn’t be home and I’d have to wait until this afternoon to get it, and now I can’t even find it ANYWHERE!!!!
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May 19th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
Congrats Diana! I had to go two different store before a nice employee went to the back and pulled it out for me! I e-mailed you a picture of my “wild” spotting.
P.s. Done with the book and loved!
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May 20th, 2009 at 1:26 am
*squee* He came back! I hereby confess… I will never get over my literary crush on Poe.
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May 20th, 2009 at 7:57 am
I loved how this book was a perfect bookend to the series. I was constantly reminded of Amy’s own tap and her experience. I love how 178 really stepped up and pushed aside 177 (as they did with 176). What a great book. I love that there was a happy ending and almost paniked when Poe reached into the flowers…need to lay off the hard core romance novels. But I am now picturing their love child 25 years in the future. Wondering about that child’s entrance into R&G, I mean really how can you pass on, a double legacy right?
Poe, I loathed you in book 1, disliked you in book 2, liked you in book 3 and loved you in this story. I loved that he backed off on the tapping process and wouldn’t tell Amy anything about their tapping. I liked that he was so passionate with Amy and that this was the real Jamie we got to know on the island.
I loved Michelle and knew she was a tap and had a feeling connected to Jamie. I hated Darren and Blake but they were great villains for this story.
I am re-reading it again because I sped through the book the first time but a fabulous series. Now bring on rampant!
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May 20th, 2009 at 8:30 am
I graduated from college a few years ago (so I’m not in the YA camp at all, but who cares
, and this entire series has been a wonderful flashback. To be fair, everything that Amy went through may be hyperbole – but really, our real relationships in college were just as convoluted, were they not?
ANYHOW,
I LOVED this series, and Tap & Gown just topped it off. I grimaced during much of the Michelle-Poe-Amy mess (seriously, who hasn’t dealt with the ex-factor?). I recognized the all-too-familiar Topher jerks. But I guess the legacy from reading this series is that I will now, and for a very long time to come, entertain a crush on a fictional character (we always love the boys we first loathed). We need more Pajamies in this world – or maybe, we just need one for the Amy in each and every one of us.
Cheers, I look forward to more from you, Diana!
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May 20th, 2009 at 8:47 am
I too am one of the unfortunate SSG fans who is still without a book. None of the major bookstores (B&N, Borders, Hastings) got the book in. I am biting my nails in anticipation of the end of the story.
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May 20th, 2009 at 9:13 am
For those who couldn’t wait for the paper copy (e.g., me), there’s also the option of getting the ebook at places like http://www.fictionwise.com
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May 20th, 2009 at 10:03 am
Like many of the posters, I am so out of the “young adult” genre…but am completely addicted to the series. Living in a complex, sometimes the UPS carrier wont leave packages–I left a note on my door giving permission to leave JUST IN CASE(because if they didnt I would have been beside myself) and raced out the door of my corporate job at 5pm and was reading by 5:50. Someone called and asked me to dinner. I said no. My only break was for American Idol and even then I was reading through commercials!
Like Linda, the series has been a wonderful college flashback for me and I thought the ending was spectacular. It felt fitting but not too ironed out to be fantasy–I could actually see everything that happened to all the characters being realistic. I laughed out loud reading the chicken commentary, happily squirmed at the sexual tension between Amy and Jamie, sniffled when she realized he was gone and cheered when he came back, and groaned with complete understanding at the Michelle-Jamie-Amy triangle because who hasnt been there? Like Katie, I appreciated the realness in the Jenny/Harun relationship and their religion issues because most books like to pretend it’s fantasy and that doesnt matter but it does.
All in all, great job, Diana! Im still saying I think Rites of Spring (Break) was my favorite in the series but Tap & Gown was a close second!
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May 20th, 2009 at 10:48 am
A great end to a great series…
I know it’s a long shot, but part of me does wish for one more book (after all, our Bugaboo could be interesting as a patriarch)…
By any chance could we get just ONE more secret story? Something along the lines of telling us what happened to the characters in the future (say 5 years out)….
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May 20th, 2009 at 11:05 am
I finished T&G in one night– 5 hours of sleep are worth it in this case. Like Leslie, I couldn’t wait to get home to read.
Tap & Gown touched on some very real issues affecting college students today – it’s unfortunate that this is how many Colleges and Universities handle issues of abuse and date rape. I say good for Michelle and finally Amy for standing up for themselves- it takes a strong woman to do that and Diana, you illustrated that perfectly.
On to Topher– I really did want to hate him for being such a douchebag. But, he reminds a bit of my little brother. Overly confident, very cockey and not afraid to show it– but Topher pulled through in the end and showed that he knows the difference between right from wrong. I think once he gets over himself, he’ll be a good digger.
George as Jamie’s tap– For some reason, I felt I knew all along. George emerged and one of my favorites, I loved seeing him grow and mature and admire his choice to go into Teach for America. That was awesome.
I could go on and on about each character, Jenny is amazing and mature and insighful, I enjoyed seeing her through T&G. I wish we got more of Malcolm. He provides awesome color commentary…
Now, Amy– what a fantastic, complex character. Her journey through this series was mindblowing. I wasn’t sure what to think of her at first (SSG). I thought she was immature and spoiled.. then I realized how much she was like me in college.I loved the progression of her relationship with Jamie. I cried with her when Jamie left and cheered when he came back.
Diana, loved the SSG series, I’ll keep going back and reading these forever. Thank you a million times over.
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May 20th, 2009 at 11:10 am
I am SOOOOOO glad that my book was waiting for me yesterday. Amazon kept being sketchy about when I’d actually receive it, so day of release was quite the treat. So, I got home from work, saw the book, got my comfy clothes on, and, well, aside from a short AI/Glee break, I read. Like the others, I couldn’t put it down.
Um, one line in particular tripped me up. Amy said she was a marshmallow and all I could think at that moment was, ‘Veronica Mars, She’s a marshmallow’ and I totally giggled.
Okay, I admit, the second I heard Michelle was in Swarthmore, I just KNEW she’d have been with Poe. And then when Amy and Poe are fighting, I just kept thinking, come on Amy, put two and two together…
On that note…I ABSOLUTELY LOVE that fight. And pretty much every fight they have in this book. They don’t just yell and run before they resolve anything. They stay long enough to get what they need to say out there. And obviously, they still had problems, but with these two, they couldn’t just be perfect.
But that said, the ending was PERFECT! I love it!! Yay for Jamie and Amy. Pajamie Forever!
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May 20th, 2009 at 11:18 am
Ooh, one last thing. I see a lot of people commenting about not reading YA fiction, but I don’t really follow. In my opinion, these are definitely not YA books.
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May 20th, 2009 at 11:21 am
Oooh I LOVE the idea of one final secret story 5 years out! An Epilogue of sorts?
Pretty please, Diana?
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May 20th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
Re: “chicken scene” Should I not admit that I had to ask a few of my friends what this meant? There’s so much vegetarianism in this book, I was almost positive I never had poultry in it at all!
Re: Gina Mac: “Tap & Gown touched on some very real issues affecting college students today – it’s unfortunate that this is how many Colleges and Universities handle issues of abuse and date rape.” I have to say that this is probably the most overtly personal plotline in the series. I’m appalled by the way that universities can respond to these issues, and I wanted to address that, especially in terms of the culture of secrecy that the series portrays and often seems to champion.
Re: “5 years later epilogue” No. Sorry.
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May 20th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
What a fantastic end to the series. I’m a sucker for a series anyway, but so often the endings fall flat, seem contrived or rushed, or abandon all the qualities that made you love them in the first place. Not so with T&G. It really was spot-on.
And so, I say thank you, thank you, thank you.
The way Amy came into her own was inspiring. The parallels between Blake and Darren were so deftly handled. And the underlying social commentary about the impetus for silence when something sexually untoward happens was spot-on, timely, and superbly important. I’m so glad to see a novel like this, out in the world.
Once again: thank you.
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May 20th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
I think “chicken scene” is referring to Amy reading about D176’s plans for thier Straggler Initiation.
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May 20th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
I was rereading the first scene in the dean’s office, and something just didn’t seem right. (Other than the fact that it was taking place.) Then I realized what it was.
Was Blake lying to his father about what happened at the tomb?
We know that Blake gave a decidedly false version of what transpired to Eli officials, and probably to the police as well. But did he also lie to his father about being tapped by Rose & Grave? I get the impression that Walter sincerely thinks that Blake had been tapped by R&G, and that he isn’t just trying to cover for his sociopathic son.
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May 20th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Quote: Re: “5 years later epilogue” No. Sorry.
Uh oh, our imaginations are going to run amuck! How about if we start a petition…?
Re: George – I agree with Gina… It was not a surprise that Puck was Poe’s tap. The fact that this little tidbit had never been revealed in the prior 3 books of the series suggested some irony was in play. But yes, I absolutely loved seeing George’s character develop, even if it was from a distance (i.e. Amy’s point of view). I think that we as readers – or at least me – underestimated him all along.
On whether Blake’s father genuinely believed his son – I couldn’t get a firm read on this. The father may be genuine, but I could just as easily see him as trying to protect his son – his legacy – to the furthest extent possible, no matter what lies and whose lives were hurt in the process.
On the issue of how universities handle sexual abuse on campuses: so so timely. And while I don’t think that schools all “sweep the dirt under the carpet”, I firmly believe in its being under-reported and mishandled.
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May 20th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE… a few more SSG books? It would make my life! I want to know what happens in England and how Amy does as a patriarch! Plus Im still want to know what exactly was on Poe’s CB.. I want to know what ends up happening with that little brat Darren! PLEASE I ask for a few more books!
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May 20th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
I absolutely loved the book!! I reread the other three this weekend to gear up for Tap and Gown. so basically i read secret society girl non-stop and i can’t get it out of my brain for the time being. i snatched the book up on monday but didn’t start reading it until tuesday evening and i really couldn’t put it down! except when i was forced to make dinner and eat with my family, but even then i still had it on my mind…for example my brother had BLUE gatorade with dinner; i mean what are really the chances??!? but i refused to go to bed with it unfinished, especially since i had to work 12 hours today and wouldn’t have had time to read…it would have driven me crazy!! but my 12:45 am i had concurred the book and headed to bed with a smile on my face.
YAY POE!!! i would have never though i’d be saying this if i only read the first book but i devolved a weakness for him in UTR. i was utterly heatbroken when he left, but i kept telling myself “he’s going to come back. he’s going to come back.”
what is the trait the Jamie and George share for r&g?? anyone??
WAY TO GO Diana! the books get better and better each time!!
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May 21st, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Finished my 3rd read, so I guess I’m ready to comment now. I was really struck by the amount of nostalgia T&G brought to me. Despite how different my college experience was from Amy’s (my tenure was much more pedestrian), all the emotions of those last few weeks of school flooded back; the anticipation about the next chapter of your life, the uncertainty over what will become of your romantic relationship, the sense of loss that the campus you’d called home for four years wasn’t yours anymore. I wish I could go relive that life for a little while.
All in all a great finale to a great series. As much as I want to know what happens in everyone’s grown-up life, I know that it’s probably better in my imagination.
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May 21st, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Oh–one question for all my fellow readers–did anyone else think the whole ‘come present your paper in England’ bit was going to end up being a prank on Amy? I guess it speaks to my paranoid nature but I thought it was Dragon’s Head messing with her some more…
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May 21st, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Re: “come present your paper in England” – maybe, initially I thought it was a little far-fetched and, therefore, likely a prank by Dragon’s Head.
However, looking back, I see it as a validation of Amy’s own amazing brilliance. One that puts her on par with her fellow R&G diggers. I always felt that, to some extent, Amy had a lack of self-confidence, but here – here’s just a little proof that she’s more than what she always thought she was.
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May 21st, 2009 at 4:24 pm
I didn’t think the “come to England” bit was far fetched. When I wrote my senior thesis in college my advisor and class prof both asked if they could submit my final paper for publication. It didn’t make the cut, but if it had I had been briefed on possibly having to defend and present it. I was also told at the time they weren’t going to tell me about the submission, so that if it was rejected I wouldn’t have to know, but I had a job lined up after graduation and they wanted to make sure I would be available.
I’m reading Amy’s Graduation scene over again, and the lilies melt my heart.
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May 21st, 2009 at 8:06 pm
I LOVED this book. I devoured every word. I re-read several chapters. I skipped back and forth as I was reading and re-reading. Like many others, I stayed up late to finish it!
I loved the complexity of the characters — Amy, Poe, Michelle, Kalani, for starters. I loved the way the emotions and sentimentality surrounding the final semester of college were described. I’ve been out of college for 5 years, but reading this brought back my own memories. I loved the fact you tackled real and difficult topics relating to college life — hazing (prior to this book, I was always surprised this wasn’t brought up in the series), abusive relationships, cover-up scandals (having worked in college administration, I know too well the truth behind the story you wrote here), even annoying influence and pressure from alumni and parents.
I also loved the way you crafted Amy and Jamie’s romantic Spring Break fling into a mature relationship, full of doubts, arguments, commitment issues, concern for each other, secrecy, intimacy, tenderness. I was very happy with the ending! It made sense for Amy to let go of Poe so he could give the job a try on his own, given that Amy was pressuring Lydia to do the same thing. (Even though it broke my heart to read the dinner scene.)
But the end was just great — it revealed the transformation in Poe, to a person who feels he belongs and is loved and has a place in the world. This reflects back on his middle name, “Timshel”, as described on the bio on your blog page. Timshel, of course, references the discussion from _East of Eden_ about choice and free will. Jamie experiences a lot of difficult choices in this book, whether choosing to take a chance and pursue a relationship with Amy, or choosing to walk out of the Diggers’ favorite bar instead of blowing up, or choosing to make Amy a priority over his career ambitions.
(I secretly wondered if Jamie took the “top secret” job for the sole purpose of making sure Darren got his just desserts.)
Overall, the Ivy League series ranks up amongst my favorite books. Thanks for writing a fun, interesting, intriguing, complex, addicting set of novels.
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May 21st, 2009 at 8:07 pm
P.S. Thanks for making sure Amy and Jamie had safe sex
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May 21st, 2009 at 10:31 pm
Can I request a secret story on Jamie’s decision to quit the spy job and go back to law school?
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May 22nd, 2009 at 8:55 am
I loved this book. I do wish there were a couple more sex scenes lol. But them being in capes the first time was great. I agree with many of the others, in that we want to read more about these characters. You could write about them as young twenty somethings in NYC/CT and figuring their lives out. It’s a difficult, but exciting time. I think it would make for a great set of books. If you can’t do more books, please please give us just a few sentences on what happens to each character through the course of their lives. Like: Jamie asked Amy to marry him after he graduated law school. They married after a year and now have three children all bound for Eli and Rose and Grave. And they lived happily ever after. I hate not knowing what happens and I think my version as you see above is way too ideal and perfect. So instead of us making up things like this, I think you should write it for us. Can you tell how much I want to read more about these characters?
Anyways it was a great book!
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May 22nd, 2009 at 10:50 am
Shannon – good point. I guess Amy really didn’t care that much about grad school, she just wanted something to do. I know so many people who go to grad school because of that. Amy is SO lucky that she got this amazing job with Caritas – I don’t know anyone who has a job right out of college like that.
I, too, was frustrated and horrified by the university administration’s appalling stance on rape/abuse. I’m always sick over why these issues are only taken seriously after more than one girl speaks up. It’s like women have no credence on their own. My least favorite line in the entire book (unfortunately, I don’t have it here with me because I lent it to a friend) was when the Dean said something about how Eli students are passionate, and sometimes they take things too far. It’s disgusting, and it’s so wrong. I’m so grateful for books like T&G for continuing to address these issues. I really think the recent spike in YA books about women standing up for themselves is amazing and so important. I just read Melissa Walker’s second Violet book, where she speaks up about eating disorders, and Abby McDonald’s Sophomore Switch, which is wonderful at discussing feminist philosophy in a fun context. I’m looking forward to reading Rampant, which sounds like it’s got quite a lot of girl power behind it as well!
Sorry, digression.
For Linda, Lauren P., Jen, and anyone else who wants an Animal House-like “5 years in the future” thing for Amy, etc…you know, I kind of wanted that, too, at first. But after thinking about this for awhile, I think I’m totally happy with not knowing for now. The series is about one year in the life of Amy. Taking her and Poe and everyone else out of context would make it a completely different animal. We got closure, and for now, I think it’s enough to use our imaginations for the rest. The characters are so young, they’re just starting their adult lives…don’t you think it’s better just to imagine them in the future for now?
Now if Diana wanted to revisit these characters in a totally different context in a few years, like Before Sunset does…maybe I wouldn’t be opposed. But it would have to be a different story, you know? But for now, I think we got the perfect ending, and we should just enjoy that for awhile.
/end lecture. I’m sorry, I’ve clearly taken my didactic pills today.
In terms of Blake and whether he lied to his father – it doesn’t even matter to me. I think what they both did is despicable no matter what. The fact that Blake’s father had the audacity to suggest that secret societies were horrible, but still imply that Blake should have been perfect society material is so hypocritical, I don’t even have words. The way he disparaged Michelle was completely unforgivable. Whether he believed it or not, it was an obvious and desperate attempt to get his son off the hook. No one else had their parents at that meeting. I think that says something about both Blake and his father. Everyone else took responsibility as an adult. Blake ran to his father, and his father responded. Enough said.
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May 22nd, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Thank you guys so much for reading! I appreciate it more than I can say. I’m so glad you enjoyed the end of the story.
About Amy’s paper: I also had a paper submitted by one of my professors when I was in undergrad. Why don’t they tell you these things? It was a science paper in a science journal, but. I like this much better, where I know whether or not my agent is submitting a book of mine beforehand.
Then again, not hearing about the rejections might be nice.
On the topic of epilogues, my darling editor wrote me one in an email after what I hope was a particularly long and frustrating night of editing. I really don’t think you guys want to hear what it was, though it seemed so plausible to me that I’m not sure I can really picture an alternative now.
Though I DO love love LOVE Before Sunset.
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May 22nd, 2009 at 1:02 pm
What do you know? It looks like my limerick was accurate after all!
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May 22nd, 2009 at 2:27 pm
Of course, the fun of NOT having an epilogue is we can all decide for ourselves what happens. I can believe Amy and Jamie get married, and someone else can decide she runs off with Clarissa.
In some ways, it’s the minor characters I keep wondering about . . . what happens with Jenny and Harun? How IS George handling a real relationship? How does he do as a teacher? And what kind of incredible things do the Diggers do in the future?
Or D178. They’re an intriguing group. How do things work out for them? Does Topher turn out to be an okay guy?
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May 22nd, 2009 at 3:46 pm
I loved it and have lots of comments, but no time to post right now. Just one quick item for discussion–Did Jenny get a tattoo or not??
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May 22nd, 2009 at 5:26 pm
This book felt really close to home for me, and it’s frightening how alike Amy and I are. I graduated Saturday from a prestigious college, literature major, same height/hair, similar former career interests (grad school/ literary agency/etc) and now have no clue what I want. Even had a spring break romance with the last person I expected to date/be a perfect fit for me. The only thing I’m missing is a secret society. (Oh how I wish.)
This was a wonderful end to a wonderful series. As a college student, I’ve loved reading your stories, because there are so few books about people in college. You wrote the books I was dying to read. Thank you.
I was impressed by how many more story lines you incorporated into this book and how you were able to tie them all together. You definitely had a lot on your place. I also appreciate that you touched on some very serious issues, considerately but still honestly.
There are so many things to love about this book. It definitely warrants a second read so that I can be more articulate about what makes me love it so much.
Great job! Thank you for sharing these stories with us.
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May 23rd, 2009 at 12:56 am
I agree with Katie, in that if we don’t have an epilogue, we get to have the characters end up where we want them…
For example…in my world, D-201 will have the first double legacy and her last name will be Orcutt and she will be a she because her dad deserves that kind of karma. (;
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May 23rd, 2009 at 5:44 am
Shannon- omg yes! he’s Logan!!
oh and i totally called George as Jaime’s tap! i had 3:
1. Goerge- cause Poe would pick the legacy- the “propper” tap
2. Josh- eli law and they are both secetaries.
3. if he had to pick a girl- Lucky she’s the outsider like he was.
very few books have endings that not only satisfy but also manage to give an ability of the future w/o feeling like there are still holes in the plot. of course, i wish something more had happened to Felicity (like being stabbed…)
D178 they are something else aren’t they? although i suppose every year its like that- the seniors bow out after innitiation and the newcomers learn to take the reins.
George as a teacher… unexpected, but still that remark about his mom being proud made it seem perfect. is this girl of george’s actually LOVE? if he were real i’d laugh at him then i’d hug him.
it seems like this time- what with the trial thing- the patriarchs stepped up this time to help out! such a great change from SSG.
honestly if there is one complaint it’s that it took A and J SO FREAKIN LONG to finally do it! i suppose the best relationships (at least in fiction) are the ones that struggle the most. it took them so long to get to where they ended but i wouldn’t have it any other way.
oh and i second distraction: did jenny get a tattoo or not? (and where?)
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May 23rd, 2009 at 7:26 am
Thanks, dulce. You know, I think it *seems* like it took a really long time, because I actually write cover all that time in text in the book in the book (rather than saying “two months later” or etc.), but if you look at the dates, from when they first kissed (mid March) to when they actually sleep together (mid April) it’s really no time at all.
Did Jenny Get a Tattoo or Not? Discuss:
* And if so, where?
* And if not, why not?
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May 23rd, 2009 at 9:57 am
Jenny and the Tattoo: I think it would depend on which Jenny was winning that day. She seemed to me the most complex of the other knights. She joined to bring the society down, she was devout in her religion, had a stubborn streak a mile wide, and was always (at least in part) in conflict with her genuine enjoyment of her brothers and sisters. If she did get the tattoo it was because she was being stubborn in her martyr cause or because she was having a bonding moment and threw caution to the wind. Location? I’m thinking where her bikini and underwear would always cover it up, but where she could see it in a mirror to remind her.
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May 23rd, 2009 at 11:28 am
I’m certain Jenny didn’t get the tattoo in SSG. I know there’s two sides to her, but I’m pretty sure the devout religious side would have won on that. She wouldn’t have wanted to get something permanent on her skin if she didn’t really, TRULY believe in it. At that point, she didn’t.
The question is whether she got it later. She was a pretty amazing knight in both ROS(B) and T&G. I wonder if she would have done it herself to prove her loyalty.
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May 23rd, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Okay, I just finished Tap & Gown and it was FANTASTIC! Better than anything I could have imagined!
About a possible epilogue of some sort… I’m not really for it. Of course I would love more SSG books, but I really love where the series has wound up. I think the ending was perfect because it tied everything up, but still left room for the reader to imagine what happens next.
If anything, I’m actually worried about Brandon. Out of all of the characters I think that he is worst off. I’m worried if Brandon can love and commit again… I just hope he finds a girl that makes he forget about Amy.
I loved Michelle, and I surprisingly found Topher a really interesting character.
I really do think that Lucky got her tattoo… where? I have no clue.
I have one little question:
What was Jamie’s secret job?
Anyway, I just finished the story but I miss the characters already. This is a series I will revisit most often. Cudos on a great job Diana.
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May 24th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
there’s a part of me that says that she didn’t. for many reasons, especially cause at that time she would have thought R&G was a satanic cult.
but maybe… at that moment she was being a loyal diggirl or maybe she wanted to seem to be a loyal digger in so she got it “for the greater good”
if she got it i don’t think she got it anywhere where she would have had to expose herself to a stranger, but also somewhere hidden so her parents wouldn’t see it (they would freak out i bet) so maybe on her hip where the lining of her underwear would be…?
but i’d be more willing to bet money on no she didn’t.
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May 25th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
My theory on the tattoo. It’s either on the bottom of a foot or somewhere a bikini would always cover it. She was a “double agent” for so long that in order to really be into that identity, I think she would have gotten the tattoo, but at the same time, put it somewhere it wouldn’t be found by Micah.
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May 25th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
Finished this book in one day. I LOVED IT! Great end to the series. It reminded me a lot of how I felt when college was ending, minus the whole secret society thing.
As for Jenny & the tattoo: No, I don’t think she got one.
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May 25th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
I just finished today, and I am SO happy that Pajamie (1) embraced the name “Pajamie” and (2) came back, and (3) didn’t end up being a jerk.
And I just noticed that the blurb on the back is from the Winston-Salem Journal, my hometown!
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May 26th, 2009 at 10:19 am
It was nice that Amy’s habit of being a bad girlfriend drew to a close and that she finally found some happiness. I wish we could find out what Malcolm’s response would be when he knew that Jamie and Amy were serious.
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May 26th, 2009 at 10:59 am
I want to have this series continue with D178, from Michelle’s POV. I want to see how she deals with things, and if Topher continues to be a tool/class heel or not. (Really, aren’t you wondering?)
I totally buy Amy getting a fabulous job after graduation. (a) This is Diggers we’re talking about, and (b) Jenny is that good to have it already set up and want to use people she knows are good and that she trusts.
Ah, the infamous coupling…just awwwwwwwwww. I don’t care much about having more books or an epilogue (though I will miss them all), it ends in a good place and I’m happy with that. I also like the handling of Jenny and Harun, and I can only wish I’d be as mature as they are about such things.
So, how ’bout that George with a girlfriend doing Teach for America? Who saw that one coming?
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May 26th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Did not find this book in the YA section of B&N. They only had one copy on the shelf and Borders did not have it at all???
So is D178 going to have to deal with the missing Dragon Head “dragon”? Maybe Dragon Head found it on their own? Is that why they did not fight more? I totally thought the England paper was a Dragon Head prank. I am so glad it wasn’t as I don’t think Amy could have handled it.
I am also worried about Brandon. I really like him and his gentleman ways.
I say Lucky did not get a tatoo, but agree she might have gotten one later. Really respected the way Lucky and Harun handled their relationship. I think that religion is something they probably could not over come. Great to see that they can have a friendship though!
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May 26th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
gail, you’re not going to be able to find Tap & Gown in the YA section of any bookstore, since it’s not a YA book.
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May 26th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
I did find my copy in the Pleasanton Borders, so at least ONE Borders had them. It seemed to be one of the very few that had them in NorCal, though. But at least it was displayed pretty well there.
I actually bought a hardcover copy rather than ebook this time since my Palm died.
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May 26th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Er, in the “general fiction” section.
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May 26th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
Jennifer, I’m totally on board with you. New SSG books from Michelle’s perspective would be awesome.
Gail, good question! Is the dragon still stuck in the wall of the Dragon’s Head tomb?
Jenny and Harun were perfect together, although I find the whole situation incredibly sad. I like to imagine that in the future (maybe in ten years, when Jenny’s company is huge, and they’re both happy billionaires), they do decide that it’s worth it to try to work out the religious/racial issues in order to be together.
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May 27th, 2009 at 10:30 am
As much as I wish Jenny got the tattoo I really don’t think she did. And in my minds story Jenny and Harun end up getting married with the consent of thier families later on in life. Pajamie and Amy get married and life is great. Although, I think it would be better told by Diana =D
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May 27th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
I absolutely loved this book! Diana, you tied everything up so well while keeping the characters and situations real. Loved it.
Just a few things to say, first, having experienced something very similar to Michelle, I am so glad that you touched on this huge issue that is oftentimes ignored. I ended up doing NOTHING because people thought I was over exagerating things or even making stuff up. It wasn’t until years later that I finally opened up about it but I still feel that people don’t take it seriously. Just because he didn’t beat me to within an inch of my life doesn’t make it NOT abuse!
Second, Amy’s and Jamie’s relationship was so great! They had real problems and real issues to work through. I loved when they were about to have sex that she really looked at him and saw him for what he could have always been, that she saw him as an innocent young boy who had lost so much. A lot of people become hard with time and just need someone to show them who they are and what they can become. I loved that both Amy and Jamie helped each other that way.
And third, being very religious myself, I loved the Jenny and Harun storyline. Religion has always played a huge part in my relationships and I’m glad that the book touched on that issue instead of making their relationship magically work out with such different beliefs and religious backgrounds.
And no, I don’t think Jenny ever got a tattoo.
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May 27th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Was it intentional that Amy’s successor as editor of the Lit mag just happened to have the same initials as Amy?
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May 27th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Thank you for reading, Lisa, and I’m sorry you had to go through that!
These comments really make my day, ya’ll, and absolutely make up for the fact that most of my emails are of the “I can’t find it” variety (and, um, amazon has like two reviews and one person hates it!)
PR: Amy actually comments on that in the beginning of Under the Rose, which is when we first meet Arielle.
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May 27th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
I finished TaG a couple of days ago but I just now got a chance to post. I absolutely loved the book, mostly because it read completely realistic and true to character. Throughout the series I could relate to the characters and empathize with them.
My favorite storyline was Jamie and Amy’s. For a minute I honestly thought that they wouldn’t be able to make it work, but not because of their own failings, simply because circumstances would tear them apart. Jaime would take the job he wanted and become successful as would Amy, but it wouldn’t end up a girl needs boy for HEA. But the point of the matter is that even though Jaime leaving her broke my heart, I had to respect the decision that they took as adults, which I think was a large part of the series- reaching maturity. Of course Diana wouldn’t let these two bright, intelligent, independent and damn stubborn individuals make a such important decisions through rose colored glasses. I think she got her point across with Lydia/Josh and Jenny/Harun as Amy discovered. I loved them for being strong enough to make hard choices.
With that being said, I just knew it couldn’t end like that. Well at least I defiantly spent a large number of pages looking for a sign things were still going to be okay between those two because I’m a huge romantic that way. I flipped out in the totally good way when Jaime showed up at commencement with tickets to England. I love the hope we were left with at the end for them.
Okay now I have to ask- who expected some of the curve balls that seemed to come from left field! Jaime and Michelle! OMG I kinda figured something was up when Jenny didn’t let Amy read Poe’s CB, but what a twist. And Poe being the mastermind behind the political scandal! Talk about being dark and twisty! This one blew me away! No wonder the boy had so much baggage. [Which made Amy’s description of his face in that one scene so much sweeter!
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May 28th, 2009 at 9:04 am
Thank you, thank you, thank you for letting Amy and Jamie end up together! I loved Tap & Gown and will be posting a no-spoiler review on my blog. I’ll have to also go and post a positive review on Amazon, B&N, and Borders too. Great way to end the series!
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May 28th, 2009 at 9:46 am
Look like I will have to go back and reread UTR a little closer.
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May 28th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
Like everyone else on here…LOVE IT! I don’t think that I have anything new to add to the comments list. Just wanted to give my praise for a great book and good way to wrap up the story.
Oh, I loved that both Amy and Jamie have changed for/because of each other. It’s so realistic and what truly happens in a serious relationship. Everything was just really on point.
Congrats Diana!
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May 28th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
Forgot to weigh in: 1) George definitely reminds me of Logan from GG.
2) I don’t think that Lucky/Jenny got the tatoo. It would have been way too demonic for her, at the time.
Also, Diana, I’m not going to make Secret Story requests; but, if you feel that there are other stories that should/need to be told, I won’t complain.
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May 29th, 2009 at 7:07 am
Hi, guys! Not to interrupt the great discussion going on, but I’m talking about playlists and Poe’s character in today’s blog post, if anyone is interested.
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May 29th, 2009 at 7:17 am
For Tiff and Nelly, on the topic of what Poe did to the Gehrys — it was actually made — well, if not explicit, a little more obvious — in an early draft of ROS(B), but with the rewrites surrounding the Brandon and Felicity plotline (the secret story “A New Confession” contains a scene lifted almost verbatim — just a changed POV, but the dialogue remains the same), some of it got softened.
Which I think, in retrospect, was right for the story. Putting Amy (and the reader) in a position to know about it only after the fact, and only after she (and we) trust him, was, I think, a good reminder of exactly who Poe is and what he’s capable of. He’s a very “there but for the grace of God” kind of character. Ruthless, and capable of truly terrible things.
It bugs me to no end when we read books where we’re told over and over again that this “hero” is evil/tortured/brooding/blah blah blah and judging from his actions, really he’s just kind of cranky. *Michelle* is cranky. Poe is… something else.
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May 29th, 2009 at 9:39 am
I also agree that George is very much like Logan from Gilmore Girls.
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May 29th, 2009 at 11:55 am
Poe is definitely something else- and it ain’t necessarily pretty. He makes it really hard to love him and certainly impossible to explain why we do in the first place. [That scene where he asks Amy why they love each other was really perfect because it summed it up in the only way I could imagine. It wouldn't have made sense to go all Byron on Milton on Poe, waxing lyrically about him.] Which is why I completely agree it makes more of an impact for Amy and the reader to find out about his dark and twisty stuff only after we’ve warmed up to him. We-ahem Amy- don’t idealize him but instead like him in spite of himself.
We experienced this the first time (well the one that comes to mind the most clearly) in UTR when Poe’s finally started to act umm human, towards Amy telling him a tiny snippet about himself on the train and then bam! we find out he’s been in on this conspiracy to divide the society.
I certainly like having both main characters be human and flawed better than the romantic plots that seem to be about a perfect guy falling for the dumpy girl because he’s tired of rich mean girls and someone gives her a make-over. I like the multiple dimensions and facets of Poe. He’s the guy who doesn’t eat anything that had a pulse but doesn’t mind feeding bitty mice to a snake- sure that’s easy to understand.
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May 29th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
I just typed a very long-winded answer to the whole Poe-Gehry thing and it got erased! Gah! So here’s my very quick reproduction:
Poe is not cranky. Poe is an evil mastermind, in my opinion. He’s capable of great things, but also of great darkness, in a sort of Ollivander-Voldemort way. One of my favorite lines in the first Harry Potter book is when Ollivander says something like, “After all, He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named did great things. Terrible, yes! But great, nonetheless” (I’m paraphrasing because I don’t have the book in front of me). Now, obviously, Poe is not Voldemort, and his evil does not extend to killing people. But I do think that his destruction of Gehry is a ruthless, terrifying violence. And I think both Amy and Poe recognize this greatness in each other, and they value it in a somewhat unhealthy way. Which is why I really think that Poe is lucky to have Amy, and that his love for her actually saved him from drawing himself into that darkness. It’s very romantic to say that she changed him, but I think it was more that his love for her changed him. The old Poe would never have thought twice about staying a secret agent (or whatever he was), and had no qualms about doing what he did to Gehry. The New, In-Love-With-Amy Poe, however, recognized that darkness in himself and made a conscious decision to stop living in shadow and secrecy, and to come into the light, as it were. Poe’s journey, in fact, parallels D177’s journey from secrecy into openness. And it’s this intertwining of their narratives that makes T&G the perfect book to unveil Poe’s betrayal, and (in my opinion) what takes the book itself from good to great. The theme of secrecy is ironically twisted into Amy’s personal relationship with Poe (arguably the second-most important storyline in the book), and the choice of both Poe and D177 to “come into the light” strengthens the bid for openness and creates the perfect resolution to the overarching conflict of both the book and the series.
And…that’s my Grad-Student-in-English analysis.
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May 29th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Just adding on to Tiff’s Poe analysis…
Isn’t it interesting how Poe named his pet snake Voldemort?
Not saying that Poe is nearly as bad as Voldy, but still, I think there’s something there.
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May 29th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Tiff…beautiful! It’s interesting what people see when they read. As a grad student in Political Science, I see the politics of the situations that arise and understand the secrecy and the evilness. (while completely missing the metaphors and what-not that you pointed out)
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May 29th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
I should have posted here sooner! I went to Borders explicitly to pick up T&G, and ended up seeing a movie (ah, the lure of summer flicks) and not reading T&G until I got home hours later. But I read it all in one sitting and it was a JUICY read!
I was laughing one moment, nodding solemnly the next, gawking a second later, and sniffling all the way to the last page. I was so happy Jamie came back! I honestly thought that, with all the “doomsaying” we were getting after ROS(B), Amy and Jamie would have some sort of tragic breakup (or worse, Amy would screw up royally by cheating on him or something). I didn’t want to think that the Amy that had developed over the past few books could do a thing like that; I figured, if my idea of a happy ending (Amy + Jamie together) wasn’t your idea, there was a darn good reason for it, and you’d write the ending in such a way that Amy would come out stronger no matter what. Midway through the book, I was definitely realizing that, whatever happened with Jamie, she was a grown-up now and capable of handling whatever came her way. I was going to be okay with Jamie doing what was right for him and not showing up again, but then, surprise surprise! He was back, and I was ELATED!
As for everyone requesting secret stories or epilogues or new series with the new D178 class…hey, that’s what we have fanfiction for! Since Diana’s moving on to bigger things, we now have the chance to explore for ourselves the sides to the story that were left untold or if they happened differently, etc. I know Diana is legally not allowed to comment on that sort of thing (I think?), so I’ll stop now, but it’s just a thought…. I know I, for one, am not going to think that, because the series is over, it’s time to move on and forget. I run the Secret Society Girl fanlisting, so I plan on keeping it alive as much as I can! Have to think of some more ideas for fun, interactive content!
Thank you again, Diana, for writing such an awesome series!
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May 29th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
I think the “Voldemort” is a Scorpio thing again. I have some very sweet, wouldn’t hurt a fly, female Scorpio friends who all swear up and down they’d be in Slytherin. I can’t say I understand it!
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May 29th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
After having to wait a week after it came out before I could get my hands on the book, I am very pleased to say it was well worth it! I was in London the day it came out, and made my friends run to a Border’s to try and find it (it wasn’t there). However, I finally finished reading it, and loved every minute of it! I am so proud of how far Amy has developed. She was able to realize her love for someone else, which was something I don’t think she would’ve been able to accomplish in the first or second books. I was so excited when Jamie came back, because I really believe they are so compatable with each other. I love them together! I really enjoyed Michelle’s character, and was so glad Amy got to tap her.
This was a fabulous ending to the series!
I could go on and on about every part that I loved, but I think that everyone before me has summarized it quite well!
On a side note, I was also curious as to what Jamie’s secret job was?
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May 30th, 2009 at 9:25 am
Jess – I just remembered that in my first, erased analysis, I actually mentioned that the Harry-Voldemort relationship is similar to Old Poe and New Poe, in that the only thing (in Dumbledore’s opinion, at least) that really separates Harry from Voldemort is Harry’s ability to love. Harry could have easily been just as dark as Voldemort (and especially in Order of the Phoenix, we do see some of that darkness), but because of his ability to love, and to love purely, he stays “good.” Similarly, Poe’s love for Amy is really the only thing that keeps him from continuing down a path of betrayal and secrecy, and the way it changes him is what keeps him “good” in the end.
About the greatness thing…I think Poe and Amy’s reverence of that ability to be ruthless is a little frightening, and I think being Diggers probably heightened that. Remember in book 1, when Amy thinks about how she could pull off a better threat campaign than the patriarchs enact on her? She’s just as resourceful as Poe, and just as ruthless, to an extent. I think the difference is that through the final two books, Amy (and Demetria) questions whether or not that ruthlessness is a good thing, and whether being a Digger has changed her. Yes, it makes her powerful, and certainly, that resourcefulness is useful. But to what extent is it resourcefulness and not ruthlessness? To what extent can you value “greatness” before it turns into a capacity for destruction? Amy’s questions are Jamie’s questions–what he tells Amy about “playing her cards right” re: her post-graduation job is all about this greatness. Ultimately, Amy’s decision NOT to embrace this view, and to see her job with Jenny as an opportunity and not pity is a rejection of that view. And similarly, Poe’s decision to come back to law school is not just making a stand against darkness, but a rejection of the whole “playing your cards right” idea, and an acceptance that there’s more to life than that idea of greatness.
Sorry. I did another analysis. If only I could write papers on SSG!
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May 30th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Tiff, if we ever do a Mind-Rain style collection on the SSG books, I’m so begging you to take part!
You’re blowing my mind right now.
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May 30th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
Erica (#28): You asked what trait Jamie and George share, so that Jamie would tap George…and I don’t think anyone else addressed this…
1) They are both history majors
2) Both white males
3) They both seem to have a hero complex (although unknown at the time of tapping)
I think Jamie short list was probably filled with legacy students and he chose the one he thought best (whether based on merit or parental contributions to R&G).
Another thing that I can’t remember if anyone brought up is George’s transformation through these books. I loved reading about him growing up and maturing. It was nice to see him coming full circle. Although I was laughing at him and going “you don’t get it George” at the end when he and Amy are talking about his girlfriend and why wasn’t it Amy.
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May 30th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Oh my goodness I love these books. I have the biggest crush on Jamie right now. I think all the characters were amusing. George had to be one of my favorites through out the whole series. He reminded me of people that I know. I am so glad Jamie and Amy were able to work everything out and fall in love. I think it was adorable. I freaked out when Jamie came back in the end. I also liked how the Blake thing made Amy realize that she needed to handle Darren.
I think there should be a book written about the characters like 4 years in the future. How is Jenny’s company doing, what is Odile up to, is George still hilarious, are Amy and Jamie still together? Married?
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May 30th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
It was perfect, but I don’t want it to end! But its exactly how I wanted it and knew it would end, you just sometimes have that feeling you know?
I finished all four of these books this week, and I can’t wait for her to publish more, I love her style.
And can I just say I want my own Pajamie
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May 30th, 2009 at 8:35 pm
First off: I love these books and have spent the last couple of weeks rereading theme all numerous times. It’s the grieving process. The good thing about a book series is that the reader develops a deep relationship with the characters. The bad thing is that eventually it comes to an end.
Comments to other postings..
George- He reminds me of Logan also but not the casting of Matt Czuchry. George to me is a bona fide one look panty dropping semi-man whore. Czuchry has too much of a saccharine look to pull off George but his sweet look works with Rory.
Still George- his ending was the one that actually didn’t work for me. I kept thinking that I had made a mistake reading it. For me, the committed relationship and switching to teaching was just too much. What was the life-changing event that caused George to flip his whole outlook? One could argue that he’s not really changed based on his comments to Amy about his relationship not being with her. George’s charm was that he’s all about the ladies, not lady.
Jenny- One of my favorite characters. I think that she got the tattoo. Yes, Jenny has deep religious views but she drifted away from the fanaticism from when she was involved with Micah. Even then she becam more flexible around the Diggirls. For instance, when they are drinking the 312’s, Jenny makes comments about the evils of alcohol but then imbibes. Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. So, Tattoo. where? A covered area. Probably bikini.
Lydia-I’m surprised that more people didn’t comment on her decision to attend Eli rather than Stanford with Josh. I’m still not sure what I would have done in her situation. What does everyone think wil happen to them?
Malcolm-I missed him in this book. I really wanted to read about interactions between Jamie/Malcolm/Amy and was disappointed that there were none. Is he offering cautionary advice or is he entirely supportive of his two friends?
Pajamie-what can I say? I think that he is my favorite literary male. If only I could do that Weird Science thing and scan his parts into a computer and make myself a Poe!
Amy-She’s had an amazing journey through the books. I have a million different scenarios in my head as to how she ends up and can’t wait to imagine a million more.
I’ve rambled enough. To Diana who provided me and others with countless hours of enjoyment. Thank you so much. Your words and stories are magic!
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May 30th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
I have to agree with Amy. I think the thing I missed most in T&G was Malcolm. I know he’s a patriarch and off doing his thing, but I really wish we could have seen more of him. I know there’s a hint of a possible secret story for T&G…if there is one, I hope we’ll see some Malcolm/Lancelot interraction. If nothing more than to hear his opinion of Pajamie.
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May 31st, 2009 at 12:24 am
Pam @81: You’re missing at least one. (Hint: SSG, pg 156, UTR, pg 253.)
Which dovetails nicely into the conversation going on about George and his “transformation.” I’m interested in your thoughts about this. Do you think George changed, and if so, what do you think was the nature of the change?
What do you think about his decision to do Teach for America? How does the conversation that Amy and George have in T&G 283-284 compare to the scene in SSG pg 162-165? In T&G, he’s drugged. How does that play into an assessment of his ability to be honest? Is he just stoned? Is he lying? Is he changed? Is he being truthful?
Re: Devon. Is it the fact that George admits to having a girlfriend at all (again, drugged) that has you flummoxed, or is it an assumption that he’s actually serious about her? Why do you think that George, who has previously said that he doesn’t believe in girlfriend/boyfriend relationships, admits to having a girlfriend at the end of Tap & Gown? Do you think it’s a slip of the tongue? Or do you think that he was actually in relationships prior to this without being willing to call them that? (cf. pg 177 of UTR). Do you think he calls Devon that to her face? Do you think they have a future together? Why do you think he is dating Devon (see his response when Amy asks him point blank)?
I don’t think there are necessarily answers to some of these questions, and some I have deliberately left up to speculation. These books are Amy’s story, from Amy’s point of view, so we don’t necessarily get to see the journeys that other characters are making. We see only glimpses of Jenny and Harun for example, or oblique mentions of Demetria or Clarissa’s social lives, or the inner workings of Brandon and Felicity’s relationship (except for the secret story).
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May 31st, 2009 at 12:27 am
Re: Malcolm. I love him too, but he didn’t really belong in this story. But I did manage to work him into a bunch of the secret stories, so there’s that.
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May 31st, 2009 at 2:11 am
Would you believe that George was a bit of an inspiration to me? While his transformation was a little startling, it wasn’t so unexpected or unbelievable that I felt he was too radically different from the guy we’d been introduced to in SSG. I felt he could mature into the guy we saw at the end of T&G, just like Amy matured into a great girl!
Anyway, he was inspirational in that I’ve started to look into Teach for America myself.
I’m going to graduate in one more semester, and since teaching is what got me into college in the first place (I was inspired to become a teacher and do a better job than MY high school teachers), it might be a good option to explore! So thanks, George!
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June 2nd, 2009 at 6:06 pm
Due to a clerical error on my part, I just got the book last night so I’m coming to the party extremely late (late enough that post had been un-stickied and I had to scroll back through the archives a bit…and I got sidetracked by rereading posts. Whoops). Tiff, total “WORD!” to pretty much everything you typed. I love that the basis of their feelings for each other isn’t quantifiable in “easy to answer” segments. The worst thing about reading a romance novel is when you feel like the author is forcing them together to make the plot work, or it’s animal magnetism and beyond that, they’ve got absolutely nothing to talk about. Definitely not the case here. I liked that their feelings were bigger than their intellectual sides, and that they had a maturity that enabled Poe to leave quietly and with dignity.
Truth be told, I would have been okay with Poe not coming back at the end. Don’t get me wrong, I’m ecstatic that he did (it merited a get-up-and-dance-moment). But their relationship was so well-written that, like Amy, I’d accepted Poe’s going. (And my little romantic’s heart would just imagine him finding her five years later, once he was done with his service to the country anyway. OTP much?)
On another note, Jenny is now my favorite character. I adored her in ROSB, but she had so many shining moments of awesome in this book. Her ability to dodge the issue whenever somebody questioned her about Harun never failed to crack me up. And I love, love, love the fact that she had Amy’s back as a true brother, supporting her and doing what she really thought was best for Amy, like the scene with the Black Books. I like to think that she did get a tattoo, but maybe just a really little one.
Okay, I’m done gushing now. Carry on.
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June 2nd, 2009 at 10:56 pm
Lell, I think we may be the only two fans who would have been okay with Jamie not coming back in the end (although I did have a 4am freak-out about this, and frantically wrote Diana an e-mail about it). But reading that section, when Poe leaves…I was frustrated with it, but I completely understood it. It’s the same thing that happened with Lydia and Josh – sometimes you really do have to chase your dreams, and Amy would never hold Poe back from that, nor would he expect her to. The difference is that Poe’s dream turns out not to be what he wants. We’ll see what happens with Lydia (I really, REALLY want to believe that she and Josh can survive the relationship, but realistically, I don’t think it could happen. And even if it does, Josh is going into politics afterwards; wouldn’t he have to travel a lot for that, especially if it’s federal politics? Would Lydia be able to stand being in a “First Lady” type role instead of being a powerhouse herself? Although, I guess Michelle Obama is a powerhouse…not to mention Hillary Clinton).
About George, I really think we saw a slow but steady progression of character on his part, from UTR until the end of T&G. I think once George saw how much people were affected by his actions, and how taking a laissez-faire attitude towards R&G was him just being childish and uncommitted (like his father with his mother), he grew up a bit. I, for one, totally believe that his relationship with Devon is real, and that he calls her his girlfriend and really cares about her. The George at the end of T&G who tries to get Blake’s knife away from him, and stands up to the university administration is so different from the George of SSG. He matures into a truly decent guy, one who makes decisions that aren’t all wishy-washy. He acts instead of reacting. He steps up and makes choices rather than standing on the sidelines, or waiting for opportunities to come to him. The very fact that George has been “seen” in the Prescott cafeteria with Devon, and he has no shame about it is testament to this (although I suppose he does go through the laundry room to get to Devon’s place late at night!). I think the only reason why he didn’t tell anyone about his girlfriend before was because of the teasing he would get at R&G.
I have to stop writing essays about this stuff. There are just too many things to talk about with this book!
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June 2nd, 2009 at 11:58 pm
I actually would have been okay with Jamie not returning also. Having been in the position where I have had to choose, I totally understand the options and the choice and would expect nothing less from anyone in this position. (I was, of course, ecstatic and excited when Jamie did return).
Tiff – you put to words exactly what I think about George.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 11:06 am
I think I’m lucky that life has never worked out that way for me, that I’d have to choose between my life/plan dream (oh, wait, I don’t have one) and a guy. I don’t think Josh and Lydia would make it either, but really, there’s no “good” solution to the problem. If you give up your dream for a relationship and the relationship doesn’t work out, you’ll be mad at the ex for ruining that dream. If you give up a relationship for a dream, let’s just hope that dream works out and you can find a replacement relationship (or life makes it so that you reunite later). Jamie’s job in particular is pretty freaky in that he’d be essentially dead to everyone he knew, he can’t even attempt to go LDR. And yeah, after a month of dating, he shouldn’t give up a dream he’s been working for for years for a girl. So yeah, I could have dealt with it, but I was happy he’d changed enough not to want this job on his own terms.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 12:06 pm
I would have been ok with Jamie not returning. I got upset that their relationship was short lived but it wasn’t just a crush for both of them. I was extremely happy that Jamie came back but I was more excited that he didn’t just come back for Amy, he came back because that was not who he was anymore. He changed as a person thanks to Amy instead of quitting just for her. I think that was an amazing ending.
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June 17th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Diana, I loved this book. It was amazing. I started reading your series last year and I fell in love. I was so sad that this was the last book. I really wish you would make a book about what happens to Amy down the road. Also the need to make this a movie!!!
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July 21st, 2009 at 9:45 am
I loved the whole series!!! I am so happy for Amy that I read the book over an afternoon on my vacation. Now I am sad that the whole series is over, and that I read the book so quickly.
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July 22nd, 2009 at 10:28 am
I will admit that I fell in love with the Twilight saga but the relationship of Poe and Bugaboo turned the tables. I loved every second of this story lin,especially the society ruling the world in ways.I was trying to hold off reading the last chapter because I didn’t want it to end. This book was well worth staying up late at night to read.I never read much back in High school but this series captivated me. It was a excellent find!! Now im in a search for something new to read and I’m at a loss. Suggestions would be great!!!
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August 22nd, 2009 at 10:11 pm
Amy in love?? :O
But was worth it!
Just kidding. Poe is perfect. I really love him.
The last chapter was perfect too – Amy is a girl I’d love to meet. I finished reading the book at 3 am
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September 2nd, 2009 at 8:29 am
Jillian I liked the private series. U can see them at privatenovels.com. I loved the books they were really interesting to read. Amy and Jamie are really great together. I did not like amy and george together.
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October 16th, 2009 at 11:46 am
Ok, I’m late to the party, but I just discovered and devoured this series. (Twice, straight through, as a matter of fact) I echo all the love for the books expressed here. I loved the characters, the plot, the setting, the dialogue – everything. I do have one question that I haven’t seen asked or answered yet: The significance (if any) of Jamie’s screen name when he and Amy are IM’ing at the beginning. I googled “Dink Stover” and went straight to Amazon to look at the book. Is this a book (series?) that you have read and recommend? Is it an archetype for Jamie? Or just a reference to a character that all Yale students know?
Thanks for you time and thanks again so much for your books – I really loved them. Certainly one of my best reads of the year!
Off to purchase and read Rampant now…
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October 16th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
Zee, you’re right. It was a nod to Poe’s obsession with not just Eli, but Old Eli, the traditional, all-boys network that the school once was.
Dink Stover was at Yale in a really really old-school time.
Thanks for reading!
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October 28th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
[...] Diana Peterfreund Blog | Tap & Gown Spoiler Thread [...]
November 18th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
So…WHY IS IT OVEEEEEEER??????
now that I’ve got that off my chest, it was a pretty good ending, haha, amazing actually, but there was nothing about the book that rubbed me the wrong way, maybe in the begining of Amy and Jamie’s (love the rhyme) relationship I thought there were a few strained moments, but I think it was just them finding their rythm around each other and the new parts of the other they were just getting to know.
I agree with everything Tiff wrote in this thread, the woman can really write an essay about SSG and I would eat it up!! and Zee, I too just found the series this past friday, read all 4 books in the space of 4 days (counting the hours I had to convince my stepmom to buy the ebook for me because they don’t have T&G in Brazil yet) and I’m already rereading the series…talk about addiction!!
Also, what this series did to me was transport me to the world of american college lifestyle (specially Ivy League) that I,beeing a Brazilian could never experience and I’m very grateful for it, it was amazing, the description of the rooms, the life, the dorms, I really had a case of the envy there (but then, I really got into the “wish I was Amy BOGABOO Haskel” quite early on, a tryst with George Harrison Prescott? YES! Dating Pajamie? YESYES!)
And I also love the growth ALL this characters went through…George, Jenny, Josh, Clarissa and Lyds are all pretty big faves for me and I had a sense of acomplishment and maturity out of all of them, specially George, players always find out they can love, just has to be the right girl for them, GG enthusiasts will understand as is what happened to Logan, he fell hard for Rory and left the lifestyle..
I’d like to write more after I wrap my head around it when I read it a couple more times
if there’s more secret stories then YAY, if not, I think we were left in a really brilliant place to work with, I mean, we can be SURE Poe and Amy will be seeing a lot of each other, seeing not only him but also her best friend are there in Eli and she’s just a short train ride away?? Amy+Jamie 4 ever
Diana, as many have said here, THANK YOU for providing me with this amazing story!! It truly was magical for me!
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November 22nd, 2009 at 6:11 pm
Diana I just want to thank you for these stories. Whenever Im going through a hard time at college I pick up the third and fourth books and re read them. Don’t get me wrong all four are great but these last two give me the fix I need to pull through college. YOur books make me want to attend an Ivy league school. I was in New Haven a few months ago and took a drive with my cousin who lives right by yale and I got so excited b/c I have read about the tombs in your stories. SO thank you again
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November 28th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Diana, could you picture any of your society stories becoming movies? and who can you see playing the roles?
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June 27th, 2010 at 4:29 pm
I’ve read this book twice and not get tired.I love.
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July 6th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
Don’t you understand that this is the best time to receive the business loans, which can make your dreams come true.
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August 7th, 2011 at 12:03 am
Right now I am so speechless to what to say, because this series was the best chick lit/young adult lit I have ever read. I felt the emotions that were running through Amy. I wanted to scream at her when I felt she was acting too irrational in certain predicaments. At times I felt like she was being a jerk when she was fooling around with George, when she knew that Brandon liked her. I was rooted for Brandon, but I’m glad that she went through all of that to finally realized what the true meaning of love was.
I am highly sad that there are only four books. I’ve been so caught up in the Roses and Graves for so long that, I feel so connected that it’s not even funny. I truly admire Amy and the things that she stood for. At time I doubted her perspective of certain problems, I felt like she was callow, but like I said before, it helped her to become the woman, friend, digger, and girlfriend she graduated into being.
Great job Ms. Peterfreund! I really enjoyed it.
p.s: you should write some more stories about Amy and Jamie, and the rest of the diggers of course
Thanks for the experience, it was amazing and life changing.
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October 18th, 2011 at 5:49 pm
I’m brazilian and I just read Rites of Spring (Break), and Tap & Gown has not translated into Portuguese yet! And this is driving me crazy! My friends and I love your books! can not wait to tap & gown! kisses!
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